JFK Assassination: Was Oswald standing in front of the Texas Book Depository at 12:30?
Richard Charnin
Feb. 13, 2014
Updated: Dec.29, 2014
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From the JFK Lancer site: Previously it had been told there were no notes taken from the Oswald interrogations the weekend of President Kennedy’s assassination, but first FBI Agent Hosty found his notes (included in his book) and now the Fritz notes are found. Released by the ARRB 11-20-97. According to Dallas Captain Will Fritz’s notes, Oswald said he was “out with Bill Shelley in front”. http://www.jfklancer.com/Fritzdocs.html
Latest update: Judyth Baker, author of “Me and Lee”, has done a pixel analysis of Oswald’s shirt vs. Lovelady’s which proves Oswald is Doorman. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X2eD2Wl3xSmRHTuE02ntfYkb3ES2Kuo8wl3HHzzAlD8/pub
Smoking Gun?
In Altgens 6, Lovelady appears to be standing on the steps in front. His face was cut out – except for the top right corner. Oswald was standing on the TOP level (1st floor) by the doorway.
David Von Pein writes:
There were TWO arrows placed on the photo at the Warren Commission. The first arrow was placed by Buell Frazier pointing to Doorman standing at the extreme left. Frazier claimed it was Billy Lovelady.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20007 http://oi50.tinypic.com/2lxgvi9.jpg
CE369 was first marked with an arrow by Buell Wesley Frazier on March 11, 1964, at 2 H 242: http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0125b.htm
And that same exhibit was then marked with another arrow by Billy Lovelady himself on April 7, 1964 (at 6 H 338): http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0174b.htm
Now, from the testimony, it’s a bit unclear as to which witness (Frazier or Lovelady) drew in the dark arrow that is easily visible in CE369. But that visible arrow might very well have been drawn by Frazier and not Lovelady. But I’m not entirely sure of that.
But Joseph Ball’s instructions to Lovelady might give a clue. Ball told Lovelady:
“Take a pen or pencil and mark an arrow where you are. …. Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark and one in the white pointing toward you.”
So, via the above testimony, it’s possible that Lovelady’s arrow is “in the dark” and cannot be easily seen.
I suppose this confusion about who drew the dark arrow pointing to Doorway Man in CE369 will spark some additional controversy concerning the true identity of the man in the TSBD doorway, with some conspiracy theorists possibly wanting to now claim that Billy Lovelady didn’t really mark CE369 at all with an arrow in 1964.
But it’s quite clear to me from the Warren Commission records that BOTH Wesley Frazier AND Billy Lovelady drew separate arrows pointing to the SAME PERSON (Doorway Man) in Commission Exhibit No. 369.
And, of course, as I’ve pointed out in previous posts, there’s also Wes Frazier’s testimony at the 1986 mock trial in London, where Frazier identified Doorway Man as Lovelady.”
… End of Von Pein’s post….
David Von Pein is wrong. Frazier did not identify Lovelady as Doorman. Frazier testified that Lovelady was standing three or four steps BELOW him. Doorman was standing on the TOP level (the first floor), where Frazier was standing. And it is clear that Frazier contradicted himself when he placed the arrow in the white area pointing to Lovelady as Doorman. But he testified FIVE times that Lovelady was standing on the steps in FRONT of him.
Let’s look at Lovelady’s Warren Commission testimony. He clearly states that he was in front, standing on the steps. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
Mr. LOVELADY – That’s on the second floor; so, I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, “Well, I’ll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps,” so I went out there.
Mr. BALL – You ate your lunch on the steps?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL – Who was with you?
Mr. LOVELADY – Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me….
Mr. BALL – What was that last name?
Mr. LOVELADY – Stanton.
Mr. BALL – What is the first name?
Mr. LOVELADY – Bill Shelley.
Mr. BALL – And Stanton’s first name?
Mr. LOVELADY – Miss Sarah Stanton.
Mr. BALL – Did you stay on the steps
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – Were you there when the President’s motorcade went by
Mr. LOVELADY – Right.
Wesley Frazier confirmed Lovelady was on the steps in 5 interviews from 1963-86. If Lovelady was in front on the steps, he could not be Doorman standing on the top level. Frazier indirectly proved that Oswald was Doorman.
11/22/63 to the DPD
3/1/64 at the WC
2/13/69 at the Garrison/Shaw trial
1978 at HSCA
1986 at the Oswald Mock trial
11/22 Dallas PD (handwritten statement and affidavit)
Standing on the front steps.
3/1/64 Warren Commission
Frazier testified that Lovelady was standing two or three steps below him. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm
Mr. BALL – We have got a picture taken the day of the parade and it shows the President’s car going by.
Now, take a look at that picture. Can you see your picture any place there?
Mr. FRAZIER – No, sir; I don’t, because I was back up in this more or less black area here.
Mr. BALL – I see.
Mr. FRAZIER – Because Billy, like I say, is two or three steps down in front of me.
Mr. BALL – Do you recognize this fellow?
Mr. FRAZIER – That is Billy, that is Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BALL – Billy?
Mr. FRAZIER – Right
Mr. BALL – Let’s take a marker and make an arrow down that way. That mark is Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER – Right.
Mr. BALL – That is where you told us you were standing a moment ago.
Mr. FRAZIER – Right.
Mr. BALL – In front of you to the right over to the wall?
Mr. FRAZIER – Yes.
Mr. BALL – Is this a Commission exhibit?
We will make this a Commission Exhibit No. 369.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 369 for identification.)
2/13/69 Clay Shaw/Garrison trial http://www.jfk-online.com/fraziershaw.html
MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Can you see the spot where you were situated when the presidential motorcade came by?
A:Yes,sir,I can.
Q: Will you take this symbol and place it at that location where you were standing?
Q: Mr.Frazier, do you recall who you were with during the presidential motorcade?
A: Yes, sir, I can. When I was standing there at the top of the stairs, I was standing there by a heavyset lady who worked up in our office, her name is Sara, I forget her last name, but she was standing right there beside me when we watched the motorcade.
Q: Do you recall anyone else who may have been with you?
A: Right down in front of me at the bottom of the steps my foreman Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady were standing there.
1978 HSCA interview by Moriarity and Day
Standing right on the steps
1986 Oswald Mock trial
Gerry Spence: “You recall that 23 years later that BNL was standing in front of you. About 4 steps in front of you. Is that correct?”
Frazier: Yes it is.
Billy Lovelady died in Jan. 1979 at the age of 41 by complications from a heart attack. The House Select Committee (HSCA) was in session. Billy did not testify.
The probability of a 41 year old white male dying from a heart attack in 1979 was 1 in 10,000.
Did Officer Baker and Roy Truly encounter Oswald on the 2nd floor? Not according to their initial testimony. http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-lunchroom-encounter-that-never-was.html
http://theamericanchronicle.blogspot.com/2013/09/where-was-oswald-at-1230-pm-on-november.html
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