Oswald was “out with Bill Shelley in front”; Lovelady was ”on the steps” in front of Frazier
Updated: May 9, 2015
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Oswald told Will Fritz of the Dallas PD that he was “out with Bill Shelley in front” of the TSBD. The Fritz notes were not mentioned by the Warren Commission and were hidden from the public until 1997.
If Oswald was lying to Fritz, what was his motive? After all, he already had an alibi: he was seen on the second floor 90 seconds after the shooting by TSBD manager Roy Truly and policeman Marrion Baker. He was holding a coke and not out of breath. If Oswald was not on the 6th floor, why would he not be out front watching the motorcade? And how would he know Bill Shelley was out in front unless he saw him there? https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2014/04/05/10137/
Oswald deniers say that he told Fritz he changed his shirt. The shirt he was wearing at the TSBD is open in a V pattern, just like the shirt he was wearing at the police station. Lovelady did not open his shirt in a V-pattern. Judyth Baker’s pixel analysis of the shirt in Altgens6 proves that Lovelady cannot be Doorman.
Deniers claim there was not enough time to alter the Altgens6 photo. That is a canard. There was a window of opportunity. http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2013/09/jfk-cartha-deloach-fbi-memorandum-and.html
When Lovelady was first interviewed by the FBI, he stated that he was wearing a vertically striped shirt on Nov. 22, 1963. This conflicted with Altgens6, so he changed his testimony to more closely conform to Doorman (Oswald) by saying that he wore a long-sleeved checkered shirt.
Warren Commission testimony indicates that Oswald, Shelley, Stanton and Frazier were standing on the TOP level (first floor) of the TSBD. In the Altgens6 photo, there are three men standing on the STEPS below: Lovelady, Williams and Molina. According to Frazier, Sarah Stanton is shading her eyes on the TOP level standing to his right. He was in the Black area and not visible.
If you look close, the man standing to the left of the cutout (Lovelady) on the steps is wearing a shirt and tie. Lovelady’s shirt is obscured.
There is a clear difference betweeen the early AP (Oakland Tribune) version of Altgens6 and the later Groden version. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bea_l1BJbWPx2Ju-QxedB3_cui6fCSFF7AE_iutBWGc/pub
Except for Doorman, the faces are all obscured. But the upper right portion of the whited-out face of the figure in front is visible and appears to match Lovelady. Was his face cut out and pasted over Doorman?
Lovelady testified at the Warren Commission that he was standing on the steps. And Frazier said the same thing. If Lovelady was on the steps, then he could not be Doorman who was standing on the TOP Level. Q.E.D. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
Mr. LOVELADY – That’s on the second floor; so, I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, “Well, I’ll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps,” so I went out there.
Mr. BALL – You ate your lunch on the steps? (Ball is perplexed)
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL – Who was with you?
Mr. LOVELADY – Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me… (did Ball cut him off?)
Mr. BALL – What was that last name?
Mr. LOVELADY – Stanton.
Mr. BALL – What is the first name?
Mr. LOVELADY – Bill Shelley.
Mr. BALL – And Stanton’s first name?
Mr. LOVELADY – Miss Sarah Stanton.
Mr. BALL – Did you stay on the steps? (was Ball trying to get Lovelady to say he was on the TOP level?)
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes. (BNL said he stayed on the STEPS)
Mr. BALL – Were you there when the President’s motorcade went by?
Mr. LOVELADY – Right. (Once again, Lovelady does not change his location – he stayed on the STEPS).
Ball took out CE 369. Buell Frazier had placed a black arrow pointing to Doorman in the white area. Lovelady was asked to point the black arrow to himself by placing it in a dark area (where it was invisible).
Mr. BALL – I have got a picture here, Commission Exhibit 369. Are you on that picture?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL – Take a pen or pencil and mark an arrow where you are.
Mr. LOVELADY – Where I thought the shots are?
Mr. BALL – No; you in the picture.
Mr. LOVELADY – Oh, here (indicating).
Mr. BALL – Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the DARK. You got an arrow in the DARK and one in the WHITE pointing toward you. Where were you when the picture was taken? (Ball is still trying to get Lovelady to say he was on the TOP level).
Mr. LOVELADY – Right there at the entrance of the building standing on the top step, would be here (indicating).
Mr. BALL – You were standing on which step? (Why does Ball keep asking the same question?)
Mr. LOVELADY – It would be your top level.
Mr. BALL – The top step you were standing there?
Mr. LOVELADY – Right. (Ball finally MANIPULATES Lovelady to say he was on the TOP level,even though earlier he had stated (without prompting) numerous times that he was on the STEPS – not on the TOP level).
William Shelley testified under oath that he was standing on the TOP landing of the entrance to the TSBD. If Shelley was not standing behind Lovelady, where was he? Doorman was standing on the TOP level (the 1st floor).
Mr. SHELLEY – Oh, several people were out there waiting to watch the motorcade and I went out to join them.
Mr. BALL – And who was out there?
Mr. SHELLEY – Well, there was Lloyd Viles of McGraw-Hill (note: Viles said he was across the street from the TSBD), Sarah Stanton, she’s with Texas School Book, and Wesley Frazier and Billy Lovelady joined us shortly afterwards.
Mr. BALL – You were standing where?
Mr. SHELLEY – Just outside the glass doors there.
Mr. BALL – That would be on the top landing of the entrance?
Mr. SHELLEY – Yes.
Wesley Frazier confirmed Lovelady was on the steps in 5 interviews from 1963-86
1. 11/22/63 to the DPD
2. 3/1/64 at the WC
3. 2/13/69 at the Garrison/Shaw trial
4. 1978 at HSCA
5. 1986 at the Oswald Mock Trial
1. 11/22 Dallas PD (handwritten statement and affidavit)
Lovelady was standing on the front steps.
2. 3/1/64 Warren Commission
Frazier testified that Lovelady was standing two or three steps below him. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm
Mr. BALL – We have got a picture taken the day of the parade and it shows the President’s car going by. Now, take a look at that picture. Can you see your picture any place there?
Mr. FRAZIER – No, sir; I don’t, because I was back up in this more or less black area here.
Mr. BALL – I see.
Mr. FRAZIER – Because Billy, like I say, is TWO or THREE STEPS down in FRONT of me. (why would he say this if it were not true?)
Mr. BALL – Do you recognize this fellow?
Mr. FRAZIER – That is Billy, that is Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BALL – Billy? (Ball must be concerned with Frazier’s answer. He does not want him to say Lovelady is on the STEPS, so he uses guile to twist the testimony).
Mr. FRAZIER – Right
Mr. BALL – Let’s take a marker and make an arrow down that way. That mark is Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER – Right.
Mr. BALL – That is where you told us you were standing a moment ago.
Mr. FRAZIER – Right.
Mr. BALL – In FRONT of you to the right over to the wall?
Mr. FRAZIER – Yes. (Frazier once again says that Lovelady was standing BELOW him on the STEPS, but then UNWITTINGLY CONTRADICTS himself by pointing to Doorman who was on the TOP Level).
Mr. BALL – Is this a Commission exhibit?
We will make this a Commission Exhibit No. 369.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 369 for identification.)
3. 2/13/69 Shaw/Garrison trial http://www.jfk-online.com/fraziershaw.html
Q: Can you see the spot where you were situated when the presidential motorcade came by?
A:Yes,sir, I can.
Q: Will you take this symbol and place it at that location where you were standing?
Q: Mr.Frazier, do you recall who you were with during the presidential motorcade?
A: Yes, sir, I can. When I was standing there at the TOP of the stairs, I was standing there by a heavyset lady who worked up in our office, her name is Sara, I forget her last name, but she was standing right there BESIDE me when we watched the motorcade.
Q: Do you recall anyone else who may have been with you?
A: Right down in FRONT of me at the bottom of the steps my foreman Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady were standing there.
4. 1978 HSCA interview by Moriarity and Day
Standing right on the STEPS
5. 1986 Oswald Mock trial
Gerry Spence: “You recall that 23 years later that BNL was standing in FRONT of you.About 4 steps in FRONT of you. Is that correct?”
Frazier: Yes it is..
Joe Molina said he was on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Otis Williams was standing on the top step.
(Warren Commission Hearings, vol.22, p.683, 19 March 1964)
“I was standing on the top step against the railing on the east side of the steps in front of the building. I do not recall who was standing on either side of me.”
Note: Frazier and Lovelady are consistent in stating that Lovelady was on the steps in front of Frazier who was next to Sarah Stanton. It is not clear if it was Molina or Shelley also standing on the TOP level.
In any case, the testimony is unanimous that Lovelady was standing in front on the steps. Therefore he could not have been Doorman who was standing on the first floor (the TOP level).
Sarah Stanton was interviewed by the FBI on Mar. 18, 1964. She said she was standing on the front steps of the TSBD along with Shelley, Williams, Billy Lovelady and Mrs. M.K. Sanders. She said she did not see Oswald. She could have missed him on the TOP level or was intimidated, like many others, from saying so.
Lloyd Viles of the AP was interviewed by the FBI on March 23, 1964. He said he was standing across Elm Street from the main entrance of the TSBD. Shelley had testified Viles was at the entrance to the TSBD.
Links to the Warren Commission testimony of TSBD employees are given below.
Carolyn Arnold, a secretary working for the Texas School Book Depository, provided support for Lee Harvey Oswald’s alibi. She said that he was on the first (i.e. ground) floor of the TSBD at the time of President Kennedy’s assassination. http://22november1963.org.uk/carolyn-arnold-witness-oswald
Charles Givens was not asked where he was at 12:30. Danny Arce said he was in front but “on the grass”. The others said they were inside the building on the upper floors. Jack Dougherty’s testimony is suspicious and confusing.
Doorman’s shirt was open in a V to reveal a tee shirt identical to the shirt Oswald was wearing in custody. Lovelady did not wear his shirt open in a V. Judith Baker’s pixel analysis proves Doorman’s shirt matched Oswald’s shirt, not Lovelady’s. https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/jfk-judyth-baker-pixel-analysis-of-altgens6-photo-proves-oswald-is-doorman/
Ten Reasons why Lovelady is the CUTOUT figure standing on the STEPS in FRONT of the TSBD and Oswald is Doorman on the TOP Level (the FIRST FLOOR).
Along with Judyth Baker’s pixelation analysis which proves that Doorman’s shirt matches Oswald’s and not Lovelady’s….
1. Oswald told Fritz he was “with Bill Shelley out front”.
2. There is a clear difference in Altgens6 between the early 11/22 AP (Oakland Tribune) and Groden version.
3. Lovelady testified that he was on the steps in front.
4. Frazier testified he was on the top level and Lovelady was in front on the steps.
5. Frazier testified that he was standing next to Sara Stanton.
6. Shelley testified Lovelady was on the steps in front of him.
7. Williams testified he was on the steps between two others (he did not recall).
8. The unobscured part of the cutout’s face in the GIF perfectly matches Lovelady.
9. If the cutout was not Lovelady, there would be no need to cut him out.
10. If the figure in front was not Lovelady, who was it and why cut him out?
Was ‘Prayer Man’ Lee Harvey Oswald? http://22november1963.org.uk/oswald-on-tsbd-front-steps
Prayer Man’s location, at the top of the steps, suggests that he is unlikely to have been a passer–by. He is more likely to have been someone who worked inside the TSBD building, as were the fourteen witnesses known to have been standing in the doorway during the assassination. All of the TSBD’s white, male, manual workers, except for Oswald, were accounted for. A process of elimination indicates that Prayer Man may have been Oswald. Of the fourteen witnesses, seven women and two black men may be ruled out immediately. The remaining five white men may also be ruled out with varying degrees of certainty:
Five TSBD employees testified at the WC that they were out in front: TWO on the Top Level (first floor) and THREE on the steps in FRONT.
Bill Shelley wore a suit and tie.
Billy Lovelady did not wear a white shirt and tie.
Buell Frazier was wearing a jacket.
Joe Molina was wearing a suit and tie.
Otis Williams as Bookkeeping Supervisor would not have worn a casual shirt.
Did Officer Baker and Roy Truly encounter Oswald on the 2nd floor? http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-lunchroom-encounter-that-never-was.html
Why didn’t the WC question Baker about the affidavit in which he stated that he saw a man who did not match Oswald’s appearance on the third or fourth floor walking away from the stairwell? There was no mention of encountering anyone in the 2nd floor lunchroom. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0426-001.gif
TSBD manager Roy Truly said the man worked at the TSBD. According to Occhus Campbell, Vice-President of the TSBD, Oswald was seen near a small storage room on the first floor shortly after the shooting.
Proof that the AP and the FBI were actively involved in altering the Altgens6 photo is revealed in this memo: http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2013/09/jfk-cartha-deloach-fbi-memorandum-and.html
Many claim that Lovelady must be Doorman because he looks like him. This is not evidence. Doorman also looks like Oswald – and Doorman’s shirt also matches Oswald’s.
– Lone nutters claim that Lovelady is Doorman because Oswald was on the 6th floor.
– Many conspiracy theorists claim Lovelady is Doorman because Oswald was on the 2nd floor and that Oswald lied to Fritz about being “out with Bill Frazier in front”.
– Lone nutters believe everything in the Warren report is true.
– Many conspiracy theorists do not believe the report but believe it is accurate in stating that Oswald was on the 2nd floor 90 seconds after the shooting.
– Lone Nutters believe Oswald ran from the 6th floor to the 2nd in 75-90 seconds.
– Many conspiracy theorists do not consider that Oswald could have gone from the first floor to the 2nd in 10-15 seconds.
– Why is every face in Altgens6 obscured? What are the odds?
– Is Jack Ruby standing outside the TSBD obscured except for his Fedora?
Of 17 TSBD employees interviewed by the Warren Commission, 9 said the shots came from the Grassy Knoll (GK), 5 TSBD (TB), 1 Knoll and TSBD, 1 other, 1 not asked
* standing in front of TSBD
Adams, Victoria GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/adams_v.htm
Arce, Danny GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/arce.htm
Baker, Mrs. Donald GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/baker.htm
Burns, Doris GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/burns.htm
Dougherty, Jack TB http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/doughert.htm
* Frazier, Buell Wesley GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm
Givens, Charles not asked http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/givens1.htm
Hine, Geneva TB http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hine.htm
Jarman, James Other http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/jarman.htm
* Lovelady, Billy GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
* Molina, Joe GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/molina.htm
Norman, Harold TB http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/norman.htm
Piper, Eddie TB http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/piper2.htmSanders,
Reid, Mrs. Robert TB http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/reid.htm
Sanders, Pauline GKTB http://jfkassassination.net/russ/exhibits/ce1434.htm
* Shelley, William GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/shelley1.htm
Truly, Roy GK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/truly1.htm
A discussion on the Deep Politics Forum: https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?9414-TSBD-Doorway-man-Oswald-or-Lovelady/page47#.VA8Iy_BX-uY
Is this Oswald standing on the first floor and the bald Billy Lovelady standing to his left on the steps below?
Is this 5:9″ Oswald and 6:2″ Frazier standing to his left on the first floor?
Is this Oswald standing on the first floor with Frazier and Sarah Stanton?